[Lordopic]

Originally Posted by Liet

Yes, they stink for PvP. You're missing other damaging aspects that some would say are even more important...

Removing the PvP points from Tritian's original post:
1. They have severely reduced factionalism and the sense of community Jumpgate once had.
4. They create a more empty and unhelpful environment for newbies seeking assistance.
5. They make it harder for pilots or squads without a POS to operate out of faction stations since they are no longer well stocked.

Im sorry I wasn’t going to as this now feels like I’m stuck in the Moebius.

1. I think there are or were many other reasons why this happened again it must have been more on the US server then EU as far as I was concerned the POS had no detrimental effect on the community but it was a bus load of other reasons that saw many players bus out. ( The merging of the two servers. Lack of any RP./story/ the clash of play styles ) , but I keep forgetting it’s the US server and its history that matters isn’t it. I couldn’t give two shakes of a mad dogs back leg about factionalism.

2 Why ? I have helped more than enough Noobs in the past and I really cant see how/why they have any negative effect on a new player, the reverse in fact,, say the new player needs X oh look I have one at my POS ill pick it up and bring it to you. Many a new player the thing they want most is their own POS. I would even say that after getting to lv26 this is the first thing people want.

3 As for stations not being well stocked, they all looked ok last time I looked.

4. As far as we know there in Jumpgate-V I think its time we got used to it., and discussed ways to make them palatable to all.

5.The Moebius a twist in the fabric of space where time becomes a loop, when we reach that point what ever happened will happen again.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Lordopic

4. As far as we know there in Jumpgate-V I think its time we got used to it., and discussed ways to make them palatable to all.

Guess you haven't been paying attention. Just because something is in the game now doesn't mean it can't be removed. Scorch has said that things the players don't want or that don't work can be taken out (and since so far the majority seem to want to see POS removed or seriously reworked to the point that they do not resemble what we currently have, this seems quite possible).

Also, wtf is Jumpgate-V? Evolution starts with an 'E' fyi.

[Nanaki]

Keep em, but seriously rework them. Remove the modular ones we come to know and hate completely, and make deployable stations like 'Buildings' are in jumpgate. POSes should exist to help the economy, boost production, etc instead of being a 'Home away from home' that they are now.

If you gotta have the modular POSes, keep em rare and really expensive.

ALL Buildings should require the player to purchase and ship commods to manufacture it, just like FMs.

[Lordopic]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Guess you haven't been paying attention. Just because something is in the game now doesn't mean it can't be removed. Scorch has said that things the players don't want or that don't work can be taken out (and since so far the majority seem to want to see POS removed or seriously reworked to the point that they do not resemble what we currently have, this seems quite possible).

Also, wtf is Jumpgate-V? Evolution starts with an 'E' fyi.

I never said they are going to be set in stone as far as I can tell the majority don’t want the POS removed or are you basing your argument for the majority of Jumpgates community on the hand full of pilots that read JSR, or any other Jumpgate forum and have voiced this argument that POS’s should be removed.

Have them reworked for sure I have no problems with that, but remove them totally from the game is the thing I and others have the problem with.

Also FYI dyslexia is a right pain to live with but even spell checker and me re reading my post’s several times before I post them I still see things as I think they are. So if you want to take the p*** find something worth taking it about. Like my uber PVP skills.

[xerout]

Originally Posted by Liet

Yes, they stink for PvP. You're missing other damaging aspects that some would say are even more important...

Removing the PvP points from Tritian's original post:
1. They have severely reduced factionalism and the sense of community Jumpgate once had.
4. They create a more empty and unhelpful environment for newbies seeking assistance.
5. They make it harder for pilots or squads without a POS to operate out of faction stations since they are nolonger well stocked.

This is so completely self evident I can't believe we even have to "debate" it. POS spread an already thin playerbase to hell and gone and ended factional supply points. This has been evident for years. The vast majority of players I've known over the years would like POS removed or reworked. Look, POS did sound like a great idea when they first came out...it simply turned out not to be.

What about the POB idea? Player owned businesses that can be homed at any faction or unreg base. You can have all the same modules...market your goods, refine ore and store ships and supplies for yourself wherever your business is homed. I'd even say allow homing your business at Amanth or Hype to get everyone on board. This allows for all the current functionality of POS while still supporting an interactive community with factional common interests.

The POS debate highlights one of the interesting tensions that has always existed in Jumpgate and made it so interesting. On one side the PvPers (jocks) fighting for glory and to protect their friends against the enemy. The PvPers swagger proudly through space, their sabers rattling in their scabbards. On the other side the non PvPers (nerds) who don't want to start getting pushed into lockers and made to eat clay again....and who have to watch helplessly as dashing combat pilots effortlessly bed their women There's room for all of us!

Xerout

[dailatron]

Originally Posted by xerout

This is so completely self evident I can't believe we even have to "debate" it. POS spread an already thin playerbase to hell and gone and ended factional supply points. This has been evident for years. The vast majority of players I've known over the years would like POS removed or reworked. Look, POS did sound like a great idea when they first came out...it simply turned out not to be.

This might have been the case on the US server with its 17 pilots online but it was not the case Over the pond. The docking of FFing PvPers/PKers is a pain but lets not chuck the baby out with the bath water. Yes they need to be reworked but we knew that from the start anyway, its just Istvan (God bless him) was busy doing other stuff.

You have to remember Jumpgate Evolution will hopefuly be really successful and the stations will be splitting at the seems with players so we will need extra real estate anyway.

[Tim]

Despite the multi-choice vagueness of option #1, that's where i voted. Tho it would have been nice to be able to choose 3)Just loose the POS POS.

I think that they are a ton of fun in terms of being able to sell artis and such. Also, the hanger thing is outstanding both in terms of making the game fun and also the flexibility of being able to play with other folks regardless of the activity (switching from combat to arti hunting to cargo hauling, etc)

Problem is, they also turn a fine multi-player game into a single player game. Generally speaking, of course. Back in the day, you'd log in and see a ton of folks going the same direction. These days, though, folks are headed everywhere.. there aren't 'trade lanes' the way it used to be. There aren't huge lines of folks moving a ton of things between 9 (and eventaully 12) stations.. now there are a tiny dots moving a few things to random places.

If nothing else, newbies don't log in and see 10 pilots in station. That's a shame. It would be cool if we had an illusion of lots of on-line pilots.

I think we should take all the good things that POS do and incorporate them into faction stations (counting unreg as a faction, of course). Then, blow up the POS thing.

Folks can have shops, hangers, storage units, maybe even some sort of pilot-mail concept all from regular faction stations. mmmmmmm. Then we might start getting some more regular pilot interaction.

[dailatron]

Originally Posted by Tim

Problem is, they also turn a fine multi-player game into a single player game. Generally speaking, of course. Back in the day, you'd log in and see a ton of folks going the same direction. These days, though, folks are headed everywhere.. there aren't 'trade lanes' the way it used to be. There aren't huge lines of folks moving a ton of things between 9 (and eventaully 12) stations.. now there are a tiny dots moving a few things to random places.

Thats not the fault of POSes, thats the low pilot numbers and lack of stuff to move for profit. If there was 100s or 1,000s even, there would be traffic.

ATM we havent got enough players to stretch to 5 per station so lets not blame POSes for lack of station sitters.

If, and thats a big IF they remove POS we would need more stations in other sectors anyway.

[Sephiroth]

Hey guess what dailatron, when POS were introduced the US population wasn't 17 online it was in the hundreds. The problems we faced with a small population were just as noticeable with many people online.

Sorry to disappoint you but your theory is wrong.

[dailatron]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Sorry to disappoint you but your theory is wrong.

Read my post again, I explained a situation not put a theory forward. All I see is people trying to tell me the world is flat or that Earth is the center of the universe, and I aint buying it.

[alphabet]

Its more like, were trying to tell you the world is round and you insist its flat. See I can play that game too.