[dailatron]

Originally Posted by Tritian

By the same token, don't punish the pirates for RP'ing their situation. Unfortunately, If you're going to RP a pirate you have to go where the targets are. It's unfortunate the game mechanics funnel all the targets into the highly regulated areas of the map where these people expect to be completely safe, but that aint the pirates fault.



1) At 1 pr point per mission, how long do you think it'd take you to run 120 transport missions?

2) Could you seriously stop saying this? NO ONE GOES TO UNREG!!! When you understand that small fact, you quickly realize how useless an unreg-only pirate would be.

Tritian for a start you are not the only pirate in operation, infact hell youre not even flying and when you was it was a ranger or scout. Dont civ rip and you wont get a bounty. If you cant do the time dont do the crime.

Population and the econ is the problem for no unreg traffic. As I said before dont look to make everyone a potental victim just for your own sake. It would be like OV going on a civ rip spree just because there are no MT pilots on.

Originally Posted by Tritian

1) At 1 pr point per mission, how long do you think it'd take you to run 120 transport missions?

You do know about /vouch dont you ?, where you can get someone to vouch for you and up your PR. Now thats got to be worth more than any monetary nap.

Anyway this thread has gone on far to long and honestly Tritian your argument is the same in every post. It really should be closed.

[Tritian]

Originally Posted by dailatron

Tritian for a start you are not the only pirate in operation, infact hell youre not even flying and when you was it was a ranger or scout. Dont civ rip and you wont get a bounty. If you cant do the time dont do the crime.

What does this have to do with the points I brought up? Nothing.

And you obviously do not know me. I used to pirate strictly in my nix for years, but the current bounty laws make that impossible. w/ a ranger, my bounty is 7mil not 20mil, hence why I flew the ranger. FYI, I do fly, but not on my pirate account. I have many other account and I still fly constantly, but they arent pirates. The current bounty rules have effectively killed Tritian's RP.

Originally Posted by dailatron

You do know about /vouch dont you ?, where you can get someone to vouch for you and up your PR. Now thats got to be worth more than any monetary nap.

Taken from the /vouch command release notes:

Political Rating Support Tool
Requirements: Be docked in a home faction station. Recipient must be docked in any TRI station and have PR below 90 in your faction. If the cost to use this tool would place you below 0 PR, your request will be denied.
Command Syntax: "/vouch 'pilotname'"
Result: Increase recipient's PR with your faction by 10.

Cost: 500000 xp plus a PR cost that varies based on recipient's faction and PR at time of vouch. PR cost is 20 for your own faction, 30 if from a faction other than your own, but doubled if the recipient is in disfavor (PR already below 0).
Examples: For a pilot of your own faction with PR 38, /vouch will cost 20 PR. For a foreign pilot with PR -5 with your faction, /vouch will cost 60 PR.

So, that'd mean it'd cost the person 40-60 PR points just to give me 10 PR points if i have negative PR. It'd also cost that person 500k XP.

So yeah, /vouch is worthless.

Anyway this thread has gone on far to long and honestly Tritian your argument is the same in every post. It really should be closed.

LOL! Funny, I was thinking the same about you. You've mentioned /vouch and unreg-only several times, yet they are both completely impractical in the current game mechanics. What's your next inane recommendation?

[Algore]

So then, in conclusion the system needs reworked.
Good job team.

[Tritian]

Originally Posted by Algore

So then, in conclusion the system needs reworked.
Good job team.

An accurate, albeit vague, summary.

What's your suggestion?

[Jonboy]

I thought /vouch was a bit soft. I had over 19 mil experience when i left. so the exp cost was peanuts. The PR cost meant that someone else could work off your bounty while civ. Going from 125 PR to 65 PR isn't a hurt at all.

[Liet]

Originally Posted by Jonboy

It is sad that this thread is no longer anything to do with the removal of the registry system. I honestly would like to try the game without.

IMO, removal of the tag system would create a more RP rich game, with more dependence on player interaction. Sorting out intersquad relations and escorts and sorting out who was doing what in a fleet/convoy was lots of fun. I did have to do this even when there was the tag system in place. But I was still mostly safe when I went HG-tagged for a month (Liet didn't even rip me when I was mining in a tow).

You can't rely on tags or escorts or a bounty system to keep you safe. There is a level of risk that you take by launching. I still think that we'd be better off with a PvE server (with a civ-chip, you could still chose to PvP) and with a PvP server (with no civ tag). I'm glad that dailatron and lordo and WB still would rather SOME level of danger than a Civ-chip. I just don't understand what that level is.

This post is worth reading again. I also would love to try Jumpgate without tags, and without the ability to hide in a POS or flux space all day. It makes you accountable for your words and actions.

As long as Jumpgate isn't pansified like it is now, I'll be happy. The current system is laughable.

[Istanbul]

Tags don't (and shouldn't) make people safe. They do provide penalties for downing non-combat ships. So we've determined that bounty penalties are currently too high, and we know that a very unfinished tag system is hard to work with. Who'd've thunk? You know what, if Jumpgate Evolution doesn't have tags, i'll still play (if my computer can run it at a rate acceptable to me). I'd prefer it if they do have a tag system though. Just not exactly what we have right now, which is an unfinished... well, mess.

[daslog]

Originally Posted by Tritian

The problem with that is, noone goes to unreg since there is no reason to go to unreg. So a pirate who is limited to just PoD'ing people in unreg is not going to be successful.

We need reasons for the average joe hauler to go to unreg. Hence my contraband thread!

I agree completely. I think if we solve this problem, an Unreg pirate becomes viable. Sine we are getting safe zones anyway, it's really the only way pirates can work.

[Istanbul]

I don't think they've said specifically what a 'safe' zone entails yet, so don't assume that a civ can't be killed there.

[Lordopic]

Originally Posted by Jonboy

I'm glad that dailatron and lordo and WB still would rather SOME level of danger than a Civ-chip. I just don't understand what that level is.

Im not sure i understand the statement, but I have no problem with rats, or Unreg Gang Bangers just people who Civ for no reason. The level of danger I would like to see Not too sure will have to think about that one, but I know for sure I wouldn’t like a free for all quake in space.

Which im not saying would come about if you ditched the Tag system TBO most of the time im in flux space which is Unreg so my Civ tag means sweet “&*& all anyway.

[daslog]

Originally Posted by Istanbul

I don't think they've said specifically what a 'safe' zone entails yet, so don't assume that a civ can't be killed there.

Here is a transcript from the interview link to a link to it here:

Another ND Interview

1:07:42 in the interview. pay special attention to the last paragraph.


NETDEVIL:

What you can’t do, is you can’t go so far that the players can destroy the game for everybody else. There is ways that you can do that by doing things like having areas, which is kind of standard right now, You have areas of space that are sort of protected and I as a PvE player that doesn’t want to have anything to do with your big PvP battle. I’m just going to go this way, and I’m going to enjoy that part of the game, but I as a PvP player am now going to organize a massive alliance to take your blockade out.

So you can have both of those things coexisting as long as you make it clear which area is which and you reward people properly for the game style they choose to engage in.

INTERVIEWER:

It used to be in Jumpgate: that you could engage in PvP whether or not you were Honor Guard and you could get killed whether or not you wanted to, but you got a bounty if you killed a Civ (interviewer describes old bounty system and Civ rips).

Are you going to have it this way, or set non PvP zones essentially?

NETDEVIL

That’s another thing that of course you can imagine that spawns massive debates. My feeling is this: basically if you have a game that’s open PvP, in other words non-consensual full on anywhere I can. I can kill whoever I want anytime I want anytime. There is consequences to that but the bottom line is that but I as a PvE player have no control over the fact that you are going to kill me now. The problem with that kind of design in my opinion is that in order for the person who enjoys that kind of game in order to have fun [the civ ripper] you need to have 10 or 15 people who don’t find that fun at all.

You have to create an environment in which the people that are just starting out playing the game and they want it to feel/are safe. You have to give them an option to feel safe. That’s why most MMOs have PvP and sort of non-PvP servers.

What you have to do is you create a scenario in which PvP is fine, but it is consensual. And that can mean that I choose play on a server that’s completely open combat, or it can mean I turn on a PvP flag, or it can mean I venture to a certain area of the game where I know is dangerous but I don’t have go there in order to keep playing the game if you will.

So I think we want to protect those people who want to play in a PvE environment so that they don’t have this unfortunate experience of the first thing I do is launch and get killed cause their happens to be 80 guys who happen to own this sector of space now and so basically now I can’t play the game. So we want to protect those people yes.