[dailatron]

Originally Posted by Algore

Did I miss something or is Ambro being a dumb dumb?

Sort of.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I agree with Trit, WB no where does it say you will be victimized if you're not a PvPer, it just says we need to eliminate the tag system and encourage player interaction.

And yes.

If you are not a PvPer, then you are a victim if you get civ ripped. The bounties coming out of the rippers pocket is to discourage civ ripping. What is being asked for here is to take away that discouragement.

[Ambrosius]

If you mean my "senior moment" forgetting who I was responding to . . yes . . . dumb dumb. Now fixed.

[Istanbul]

Originally Posted by Ambrosius

I agree with the who "co-dependence" thing, but from what I have seen most non-PvPers want little to do with it. Far too many "econs" simply want to haul things around or mine for big profit and be left alone. Can you say Massively Singleplayer Online Game?

Make no mention of the teamwork, 'positive player interaction', it takes to accomplish things on a scale that is in any way significant. Who the heck in their right mind WANTS to get shot down? That said, we at M E C try to organize convoys with escorts whenever we can if it makes any sense to do so. Heck, we can handle pirates, so long as they don't cry when we win.

[Mickey_D]

Isty, you need a couple high level Sol cargo haulers in your squad? I've been squadless for too long I guess.

Trit, sorry for taking so long to respond to this. I'd forgotten which thread I'd put that comment in and only found it today.

I agree with you, the bounty system for pirates is insanely broken. The major things I was referring to in my post stemmed from when (I never got this completely confirmed, just from reliable sources) king0815 shot my disabled (launched with joystick unplugged) ranger. I was civ, he was military. Now, I'll be the first to admit, a death in a ranger is nothing. But had I been in my freighter (or worse yet my tow), I would have been (rightly) pissed. I always fly with a minimum of an AB4 in. When I'm in the tow it's an AB4, EB3, and PCE-5's. Why? Because both ships are insanely slow and the tow has been crippled unless you equip the above named arties.

And what was king's punishment for wrongly (he was looking for a beacon flipper, but it wasn't me) downing me in home-faction space? He got a military demerit.

Next was -Clyde-. I was in my tow heading to Aman to get flashfires for the PvP crowd. It's what I do. I'm a space trucker. So I'm heading through DG and he's in a Dragon. My shields start lighting up so I lob both MS's I had at him, burned both remaining FF's, and tried to run like hell. Dropped his shields pretty good, but didn't even armor him. And since my tow has been nerfed so badly, he was easily able to keep up with me. His reason? Apparently I was bad mouthing him in chat. If I had been, I would have dropped engines and taken my dues with no questions. But since I hadn't been I somehow talked my way out of it at 12% armor ( I also think there's a mole in Solidarity, because I was on voice comms with them and shortly after I'd gotten confirmation that help was on the way, -Clyde- left and logged).

So there you have two situations (one that didn't matter to me but the principal and the other I got out of) that could have been a LOT uglier than they were, neither one would have meant the slightest bit of an inconvenience to the attacker as they were both MT and would have only gotten a demerit (which king got). Completing their military tour would have (and did in king's case) relieved them of all debt for the rip.

I apologize for the confusion there. I wasn't referring to pirate rips. I was referring to the MT --> Civ rips.

[Tritian]

demerits dont clear at the end of your tour of duty, i think you need to raise your PR to 125 in your home faction to get rid of one. While you have them, your insurance is crippled so if you die, you loose more $$$, and for each demerit you get, you gain 1 less PR point for each mission taken.

Anyway, I see your point, but space is dangerous. both reasons for the attacks on your vessels were due to solid reasons, despite the fact that they were targeted against the wrong person. =)

King thought you were flipping. Clyde thought you were badmouthing him. You might not have done either... but sometimes thats the way the cookie crumbles.

IMO, the tow should have NEVER been nerfed, and the freighter is WAY out of balance. Freighter is impossible to destroy, and now the tow is virtually worthless so all people fly the invulnerable freighter.

Using techniques such as gate hopping and nuking inanimate objects, a freighter pilot is basically invulnerable to a lone pirate. The huge shield recharges before any damage can be done to them if they jump back and forth between gates until help arrives. If that doesn't work, they can always nuke the gate and destroy virtually any target within a set radius. And since they have two nukes onboard, you could take out multiple pirates easily and collect lots of bounties.

That's if there actually were still pirates flying around in the game. Which there aren't.

[-Vomir-]

Originally Posted by Mickey_D

king0815 shot my disabled (launched with joystick unplugged) ranger.
....
And what was king's punishment for wrongly (he was looking for a beacon flipper, but it wasn't me) downing me in home-faction space?

Off topic: I just want to clear this issue. It wasn't king who killed you it was me. (at the end this doesn't change a thing)
Here why I killed you:
We were hunting that beacon flipper (I really don't remember who it was, sorry for my bad memories) to sol core, he docked there. We kinda waited outside SC for him to launch, noone did but you (like 1 minute after he docked), somehow strangely not moving away at all even after being asked to leave the sector, having repeated the warning after having shot your shields down etc. I did then down you. You weren't downed for being a suspected flipper, you were downed for being a spy. If this wasn't correct, then you are a very unlucky person.

[Mickey_D]

Heh, no probs Vomir. As I said above, a ranger death is insignificant.

And as to the incident, I do remember announcing I was a noob that forgot to plug his stick in and would BRB. Mind you, if you were on a different F5 channel, it's something you would have never seen.

I do have to ask though, if a "flee" ship like the ranger just sat there after you shot its shields, wouldn't that tell you something?

[Wild_Bill]

He (the ranger driver) could have been forcing -Vomir- to take the hit for a civ rip (don't think that's what happened at all Syl, just pointing out an alternate possibility).

[daslog]

While this is an interesting idea, I don't expect it to become reality. It's far more likely that we will get an Eve Style system. In other words, effectively we will have safe zones and unsafe zones.

All the pirates can hang out in unreg and do their thing. Miners and Haulers who go to unreg (since that is where the profitable Roids will be) will hire escorts. Those folks that just want to be left along to mine while they read the next Harry Potter book will hang out in safe space.

Then everyone is happy. Trit gets to pirate, PVPers know where to go to get a fight, and the Haulers know get to decide if they want to risk it unreg or not.

[daslog]

double post

[vorlon31]

Originally Posted by Tritian

IMO, the tow should have NEVER been nerfed, and the freighter is WAY out of balance. Freighter is impossible to destroy, and now the tow is virtually worthless so all people fly the invulnerable freighter.

I am with you on the tow nerf but disagree on the fr8r. If your going to go for fr8'rs you need to equip fr8r killing weapons and not fly with the standard pvp laser set. That is where the mistake is being made, you want to fly with generic pvp gear while 'rp'ing a rat.

To be the rat you must 'be' the rat inside and out and be at one with your rat'ness and most importantly, use weapons fit for purpose.

Even a lone 3 gun Tensy can eat a freighter for a snack and laugh at his nukes with the right load-out, but there is a sacrifice to be made and the sacrifice is the load-out you use.

(edit: and yes there are rats in game atm. They just don't shout out their existence as high visibility and pirating simply aren't good bed fellows in a galaxy as small as ours.

Its a bit like robbing a bank, you don't rob the one two streets over from where you live and you don't do it without a balaclava whilst wearing a T-shirt with your face printed up all big on it too, and then leave the cashier your business card).