[ELPIRATA]

Ok, this is basically about.... well, radar ranges (doh).

The idea comes related to the Hyperdrives on GG's thread, I mentioned that tows/miners already have big radars that allow them to spot problems 45k away and take actions (like engaging the hyperdrives).

Well, the idea of reversing ranges would deny that, and therefore, I would then change my suggestion there and allow these the ability to deploy distress beacons (or simply use the mayday).

I dont remember any movie in which a civilian craft has a big radar, not even an advanced radar. Therefore, there should be a limitation for the civilian craft on how big their ranges can be. It makes sense that military vessels have bigger radars and logistic military vessels should have even better and more advanced radars.

The other good thing about civilian craft having small or simple radars, is that automatically we void their ability to be used to spot the enemy and give positions away. Sure, we can't control all the forms of spot and give away positions, but if we cut their radars range... we can limit it.

Then, logistic ships, recon/scout/ranger ships, can have then bigger radars and only logistic ships able to use advanced radar forms. The idea of 'advanced' would be more in terms of being able to detect ECM'ed ships, target and send target acquisition data to the ones who will do the killing.

For fighter ships, 30-35k range should be good, and enhanced only (like receiving the target data from the awacs) in presence in-sector of a logistic ship. Civilians could be able to target 15-20k perhaps 25k the most, and then the scout/ranger/recon class to get the big ones 48 to 54k.

Note that these recon/ranger/recon should be IMO military vessels.

The one thing I dislike about this idea is that we void a HM/tow the ability to arti hunt, but if Rangers were to have 20-25u of cargo space, I guess it would be ok.

ELP

[netburnr]

I like it.

It makes sense that the military has better equipment than the civilian craft.

I would maybe make it so civ craft have up to 35k, with fighters more like 50k, and then scout/electronics support ships hae 100k.

[GrimGriz]

There should be no civilian or military craft, just craft.

[Istanbul]

I'm ok with civ and mil craft, if the mil crafter are under mil rules which would keep them from whacking civ craft right and left. (But with allowances for full scale war) I'm also ok with civ craft being illegally refitted for unlawful purposes... i.e. pirates. Perhaps even for Mil craft to be stolen, but very hard to acquire for those purposes, and then hard to mainain as well.

[netburnr]

I like your ideas Istanbul, adds some death to the whole civ/mil spin they have been putting on the game lately.

I also like how a pirate can maybe steal a tow to use for stocking his own station. Of coarse said stole craft would need to be automatically tagged as a pirate and fall within that rule system, aka a civ can shoot it down.

[Karash]

I agree with Grim, there should be no distinctions between 'military' and 'civilian' craft.

Was the Falcon a military ship??!? Hell no.

[netburnr]

Originally Posted by GrimGriz

There should be no civilian or military craft, just craft.

Originally Posted by Karash

I agree with Grim, there should be no distinctions between 'military' and 'civilian' craft.

Was the Falcon a military ship??!? Hell no.

Question mostly towards Karash since that is my best chance of getting a worthwhile response...

Why? Why no classes?

Thanks in advance

[Wild_Bill]

Armed traders have a long history in both wet navy and science fiction. I'd hate to lose my radar advantage on the HM but I acknowledge the the logic of nerfing the range on civ ships vs mil ships.

GG, I just can't buy the idea that a great fighter would make even a piss-poor miner/hauler, much less that a massive freighter should be able to one-on-one (with any hope for success) even a medium fighter. The ability to haul massive quantities of anything argues against the necessary agility for a fighter. Even the B-17 couldn't win out against every ME-109. And that was combat craft against combat craft, with the larger machine much more heavily armed and with multiple turrets! Purpose will always drive design and it's inconceivable to me that something capable of hauling 700u can outfight or outrun another ship of perhaps 100th it's size and mass.

[GrimGriz]

They don't have to outfight or outrun fighters, just hurt them enough to convince the fighters to leave them alone.

You say purpose will always drive design...well, the purpose of these ships is to make and move commodities in a galaxy rife with hostile alien lifeforms and unscrupulous pilots. The design should reflect that (imo with turrets). The ships in Jumpgate that haul and mine were designed to be protected by civilian tags, and that protection failed everyone in the end.

[netburnr]

No, they were supposed to be protect by the fighter craft. The whole idea of paying someone to protect you never really took off because of the already tight profits, in most cases the only "protected" haulers where in multifaceted squads.

[GrimGriz]

That's inane. The civ/HG system and regulated and unregulated space made it so that "most of the time" civs were completely safe. There's no reason to guard someone who is "probably" completely safe. In fact, it's boring, and people in fighter ships don't like being bored, they're the fly me to where I can shoot someone type. If they had intended for the haulers and miners to be protected by other players, they would have made all of space unregulated so that the civs were at risk (and in need of protection).

The whole idea of paying someone to protect you never took off because most of the time you didn't need protection.

[Tim]

I think I saw the tag issue being debated in about a dozen other threads. A couple of those threads were even appropriate places to debate it. Good times.

But as to _this_ thread, it's about radar range on various types of ships.

I would point out that traditionally, while the military has generally had impressive equipment, the _best_ equipment is generally owned by private corporations.

I'm not a movie buff, so please pardon the ones I miss (I'm referring to movies because that was one of the original supporting points from Elp's post). But some examples could include:

Batman, Lost in Space, just about all of those B-movies on the Sci-Fi channel.. hmm.. oh, Spiderman! (that's a good one)

Anyway, of course there are great military inventions. But even in the real world, true innovation comes from small, quick paced companies. Atom bomb? College. Duct tape? Corporation. Time Travel? Philadelphia (ok.. you have to believe a few stories to accept that one..)