[Injustice]

Just for the record, SWG (the REAL game, not the pile of horse dung it currently resembles) had a very simple, yet very effective, PvP system. Players who wished to participate in active PvP (other than Jedi Knights, that's a whole different animal) needed to "declare" themselves before they could attack other flagged players, and vice versa. The declaration system had a 60 second wait timer on it so that a player couldn't simply /pvp and attack an unwarry opponent. Whenever you did declare, your avatar would start blinking to let nearby players know that "Hey, this guy's about to flag himself".

The old version of SWG also had a "temp flag" variation that caused any player who attacked another factions NPC's to become attackable by PvP flagged players from the opposite faction for a period of five minutes. The same concept was true for anyone trying to unflag themselves, unless they were killed. Upon cloning (SWG's version of a pod ride), the player would revert back to a non-PvP status, and would need to reflag themselves if they wanted to rejoin the fight.

[Tstrike3]

Originally Posted by Injustice

Just for the record, SWG (the REAL game, not the pile of horse dung it currently resembles) had a very simple, yet very effective, PvP system. Players who wished to participate in active PvP (other than Jedi Knights, that's a whole different animal) needed to "declare" themselves before they could attack other flagged players, and vice versa. The declaration system had a 60 second wait timer on it so that a player couldn't simply /pvp and attack an unwarry opponent. Whenever you did declare, your avatar would start blinking to let nearby players know that "Hey, this guy's about to flag himself".

The old version of SWG also had a "temp flag" variation that caused any player who attacked another factions NPC's to become attackable by PvP flagged players from the opposite faction for a period of five minutes. The same concept was true for anyone trying to unflag themselves, unless they were killed. Upon cloning (SWG's version of a pod ride), the player would revert back to a non-PvP status, and would need to reflag themselves if they wanted to rejoin the fight.

Matrix Online had the same type of PVP flagging... however I do not advocating that.... The Jumpgate Universe is a consistent and hostile world.. not a utopia. PvP is a way of life.... At some point (just like real life), you gotta learn how to protect yourself....

(knows I am gonna piss some folks off)

There is ABSOLUTELY no excuse why folks cannot take the time to protect themselves, but looks like with the safe zones they will be accorded some outside protection. Chance encounters are what they are... Otherwise, a little brainpower can get you out of most sticky situations.

This is why I like IJ's thoughts regarding Safezone implementation and wanted to attach a rider to it... As for dealing with asshats, that is in another thread, not to be discussed here.

[Injustice]

Originally Posted by Tstrike3

Matrix Online had the same type of PVP flagging... however I do not advocating that.... The Jumpgate Universe is a consistent and hostile world.. not a utopia. PvP is a way of life.... At some point (just like real life), you gotta learn how to protect yourself....

(knows I am gonna piss some folks off)

There is ABSOLUTELY no excuse why folks cannot take the time to protect themselves, but looks like with the safe zones they will be accorded some outside protection. Chance encounters are what they are... Otherwise, a little brainpower can get you out of most sticky situations.

This is why I like IJ's thoughts regarding Safezone implementation and wanted to attach a rider to it... As for dealing with asshats, that is in another thread, not to be discussed here.

Actually, the reason I brought it up was because the discussions about the "asshats" and what to do about them got me to thinking about how SOE butchered the game mechanics in SWG and really brought out the asshats in abundance. Without getting too in-depth (maybe the OEC guys could vouch for me on this, I know they tried out SWG for awhile when JtLS came out), when SOE "revamped" the PvP system, it became common to see rebel faction players attacking storm troopers (and the other way around, as well) out in the open, in the middle of major cities and starports.

Why was this screwed up, you ask? Well, seeing a rebel rifleman (who is "PvE" enabled, but not "PvP" enabled) mow down a squad of storm troopers while I, an Imperial Dark Jedi, could do nothing but stand there and watch, is pretty damned retarded if you ask me.

A similiar example would be in WoW when alliance or horde players would kill the opposing factions quest givers. The DIFFERENCE was that, on PvP servers in WoW, you always had the option to fight back.

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by Injustice

A similiar example would be in WoW when alliance or horde players would kill the opposing factions quest givers. The DIFFERENCE was that, on PvP servers in WoW, you always had the option to fight back.

It's funny, but I started a character on a non-pvp server of WoW just to see the difference, and it really wasn't all that different. Attacking NPCs still flagged you for PvP, and attacking the asshats attacking the NPCs flagged you for pvp too.

In truth, the only reason I could see to play on a pvp server is if you wanted to gank lowbees. I'm kind of hoping ND does safezones this way. You guys talk a lot about huge amounts of AI warping in to gank you if you rip a civ, but remember, if they do that you won't be able to attack QC with your friends. On the other hand, if the zones are artificially safe, but you can get flagged there for attacking NPCs and people can get flagged for attacking you back, then at least the raid QC element of Jumpgate Classic can be retained.

[Tstrike3]

Originally Posted by Injustice

Actually, the reason I brought it up was because the discussions about the "asshats" and what to do about them got me to thinking about how SOE butchered the game mechanics in SWG and really brought out the asshats in abundance. Without getting too in-depth (maybe the OEC guys could vouch for me on this, I know they tried out SWG for awhile when JtLS came out), when SOE "revamped" the PvP system, it became common to see rebel faction players attacking storm troopers (and the other way around, as well) out in the open, in the middle of major cities and starports.

Why was this screwed up, you ask? Well, seeing a rebel rifleman (who is "PvE" enabled, but not "PvP" enabled) mow down a squad of storm troopers while I, an Imperial Dark Jedi, could do nothing but stand there and watch, is pretty damned retarded if you ask me.

A similiar example would be in WoW when alliance or horde players would kill the opposing factions quest givers. The DIFFERENCE was that, on PvP servers in WoW, you always had the option to fight back.

Oh MY GOD.... SOE has ruined Matrix Online the same way..... A lowbie could stun you and then a level 50 would absolutely come along and kill you (I was a level 50 Hacker with awesome Viral Attacks).... Lowbie would flag non PVP right back on after the stun...

[Injustice]

Originally Posted by GrimGriz

It's funny, but I started a character on a non-pvp server of WoW just to see the difference, and it really wasn't all that different. Attacking NPCs still flagged you for PvP, and attacking the asshats attacking the NPCs flagged you for pvp too.

In truth, the only reason I could see to play on a pvp server is if you wanted to gank lowbees. I'm kind of hoping ND does safezones this way. You guys talk a lot about huge amounts of AI warping in to gank you if you rip a civ, but remember, if they do that you won't be able to attack QC with your friends. On the other hand, if the zones are artificially safe, but you can get flagged there for attacking NPCs and people can get flagged for attacking you back, then at least the raid QC element of Jumpgate Classic can be retained.

PvE servers didn't have contested zones where both sides were flagged and corpse camping became a problem. Hell, ask any of the old JITW crew that carried over into WoW and they'll tell you that corpse camping was the only reason I didn't quit WoW a year earlier than I did.

And you're right, implementing a "safe zone" system that's exactly like a WoW PvP server would be PERFECT for Jumpgate Evolution, but nobody will admit it because we're all perportedly against having "WoW in Space".

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by Injustice

PvE servers didn't have contested zones where both sides were flagged and corpse camping became a problem. Hell, ask any of the old JITW crew that carried over into WoW and they'll tell you that corpse camping was the only reason I didn't quit WoW a year earlier than I did.

Could you elaborate? It sounds like you enjoyed camping corpses so much that you stayed an extra year.

And you're right, implementing a "safe zone" system that's exactly like a WoW PvP server would be PERFECT for Jumpgate Evolution, but nobody will admit it because we're all perportedly against having "WoW in Space".

I'll gladly admit it. There's lots of stuff in WoW that is worth emulating. The parts I don't want to see in Jumpgate Evolution are the level and gear based pvp and the static "single player" content (everyone completes the same mission for the same NPC, as if no one actually completed the mission for the NPC/respawning bosses/instanced missions).

[Injustice]

Originally Posted by GrimGriz

Could you elaborate? It sounds like you enjoyed camping corpses so much that you stayed an extra year.

Lol, stereotype much, GrimGriz? Tell you what, I'll let one of the people I played WoW with answer that question.

[Jonboy]

The WoW system isn't bad for world PvP. The NPCs in the world complicate things. Level 70 players can run into a lvl 20 enemy town and kill all the NPCs. So the level 20s in the area can't interact with the town until the NPCs respawn. It's just lame.

Instanced PvP took away a lot of the players from the World, so there is less of that now, but World PvP is almost gone now. Instanced PvP feels quite synthetic to me, and it has no RP.

Inj, this idea isn't bad. But I don't see what it has to do with safe zones, other than it is dependent upon safe zones being in the game.

GG, he means that when someone corpse camped someone in JITW, a whole crew of JITW came and kicked their ass.