[Chaser]

Maybe your right, if it became a 2 person ship then you could or would have to hire someone to fly shotgun. I thought since it wouldnt save you from pirates anyway the pirate comunity would go along with it. I mined a lot and probably will again, depending on how this work out. The most anoying thing is to just get into position on a roid and 2 seconds later a lone flux comes at you. The game didnt give you enough shields on a mining ship to withstand an attack even from one flux for very long, but a light turret might give you a little extra. Maybe 1 in 4 would get killed, we all know if you didnt run they would just sit there and shoot you, it at least gave us a chance. If the beam quit while fighting, so what.. we can restart it...if we live.

[Badger]

Yeah. I just really hope they don't introduce EVE-style combat drones. I found it so frustrating in that game that you didn't even have to use your weapons...there were miners who would come, set up camp with their mining beams, deploy the drones, then go eat lunch. They knew that the drones would automatically target and destroy anything that came near them. Cruise control to the extreme...

Personally, I don't think solo mining ships should be able to stand and take a beating. If you want to go out there on your own, it would make more sense to rely on speed. You zip in to a dangerous area, pick up a tiny bit of very valuable ore, and then get the heck out. if you want to set up a mining camp, then you just need guards, plain and simple.

[Jump]

Escorts won't usually sit there floating around for two hours while you mine a ton of ore. Been there done that.

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by Badger

I agree that the turret shouldn't have a full view of the surrounding space. Yes, you would be able to roll the ship, but if you're doing it solo then since the couldn't re-aim the mining beam, your mining activities would cease. Plus, rolling the ship from a non-pilot console seems very dangerous...from an RP point of view, the gunner's seat won't have all the information consoles that the pilot's seat would, and you could end up running in to something.

On a re-think, I now don't think that turrets should be put on mining barges and tows. Given that it would make it a two-person ship, wouldn't it just be better to have the person who would have been the gunner just fly as escort in a fighter?

Unless the flight engine is changing drastically, rolling your ship does virtually nothing. If you were orbit mining their would be an issue, not with rolling, but with switching to the turret, but your radar should give you enough foreknowledge to stop orbiting before you switched. Cargo ships tended to fly in straight lines, so rolling wouldn't hurt them either....they'd just have to have to be careful about timing their jumps.

I also think you'll be hard pressed to get another player to be your gunner in a miner or a hauler. Just like escorts don't want to sit around and watch you mine for 2 hours, gunners wouldn't want to sit there either. Gunners would come more into play on fleet combat vessels or capital ships I would think.

In Jumpgate, space is a dangerous place. The ships should be designed to reflect that.

[Sephiroth]

Well I'm not a big fan of turrets on ships but since apparently Scorch wants them, if you're giving the non-PvP ships turrets then there better be no switches or safe zones.

[Wild_Bill]

I'm willing to wait and see the implementation before I get too upset on this issue. I can see positives (flux self-defense for example) and negatives (small view, unable to cover the whole ship, interferring with piloting/navigation).

[Istanbul]

I would view the turrets as being controlled by the pilot via remote control, as opposed to the pilot running back through the ship to get in the turret in SW Millenium Falcon style. Like, with the new interface, when you activate the turret, you'd get a popup screen that would take, say, 1/2 of the screen area, and you'd be able to control the turret throughout it's field of fire. Or if you have multiple turrets, throughout the full 360x360 degree range, and then whatever guns can reach where you're aiming would fire. The guns on the front of your ship could possibly even get some form or turreting, so long as you still had to physically control where they are aiming.

What would be really sweet is if people could use the Track IR feature in a way similar to the Armies attack choppers, where the targeting follows the pilots head movements. Look left, at that enemy tank and fire a Hellfire missile at the illegitimate son of a female dog. Then a few hundred rounds out of their vulcan cannon for good measure.

Well, maybe that would be getting a bit too extreme, keep the front guns fixed I guess.

[Chaser]

Thanks for weighing in Istanbul..any help against flux attacks while trying to mine or haul frieght will be an improvement. Its no threat to the pvpers since they fly top notch equipment and usually have the most experience, but it might help those willing to fly through flux space mining or hauling to keep facterys going.

[netburnr]

Originally Posted by Chaser

Maybe your right, if it became a 2 person ship then you could or would have to hire someone to fly shotgun. I thought since it wouldnt save you from pirates anyway the pirate comunity would go along with it. I mined a lot and probably will again, depending on how this work out. The most anoying thing is to just get into position on a roid and 2 seconds later a lone flux comes at you. The game didnt give you enough shields on a mining ship to withstand an attack even from one flux for very long, but a light turret might give you a little extra. Maybe 1 in 4 would get killed, we all know if you didnt run they would just sit there and shoot you, it at least gave us a chance. If the beam quit while fighting, so what.. we can restart it...if we live.

Chaser, I understand where you are coming from, beleive it or not I did my fair share of mining too (damn that is a boring RP). And I agree, having something there to help with the random flux that comes along would be nice, because fighting off flux in a slow turning mining ship is the last thing I would call fun. but then again, its space, its dangerous, and if a random flux didn't come along now and then, then what is the point of being in space?

Originally Posted by Badger

Yeah. I just really hope they don't introduce EVE-style combat drones. ...there were miners who would come, set up camp with their mining beams, deploy the drones, then go eat lunch. They knew that the drones would automatically target and destroy anything that came near them. Cruise control to the extreme...

I'm with you. Any form of "autopilot" (in this case defense droids keeping you safe) should not be allowed. If you get up from your seat for just one second you should be rushing back wondering if you are still alive. I have so many memories of needing to go to the bathroom or something and running back to my computer like my ass was on fire because I wanted to make sure I was still alive. That's excitement.

Originally Posted by Jump

Escorts won't usually sit there floating around for two hours while you mine a ton of ore. Been there done that.

As long as said escorts have a reason to be there, sure they will. I actually flew wing for miners more than I actually did mining. Of coarse these miners actually had balls and would head into some very dangerous areas, because they knew there were better roids there. I actually had trouble keeping them protected some times, and it was very exciting for all involved. Hell one time I was protecting a newer member while he was mining and some dick repeatedly dumped large flux on us, so I told the miner to stay near a gate, then proceded to gatecamp and kill the d!ck. The newer player got a lesson in "self-policing" that day and he was glad I was there. He even flew with me later when I was working off the bounty.

Originally Posted by GrimGriz

Unless the flight engine is changing drastically, rolling your ship does virtually nothing. If you were orbit mining their would be an issue, not with rolling, but with switching to the turret, but your radar should give you enough foreknowledge to stop orbiting before you switched. Cargo ships tended to fly in straight lines, so rolling wouldn't hurt them either....they'd just have to have to be careful about timing their jumps.

I also think you'll be hard pressed to get another player to be your gunner in a miner or a hauler. Just like escorts don't want to sit around and watch you mine for 2 hours, gunners wouldn't want to sit there either. Gunners would come more into play on fleet combat vessels or capital ships I would think.

In Jumpgate, space is a dangerous place. The ships should be designed to reflect that.

Ok, first paragraph looks like defense of a single person ship with the ability to operate a turret remotly. 2nd paragraph looks like you think turrets are dumb unless in a large combat ship, and 3rd paragraph is just plain confused.

Yes, having a 2nd person in the ship with ANY control of the flight system will cause problems, no ifs ands or buts about it.

As far as fighter ships with turrets, the only way I see that working is with Karash's design ideas, and those should come out waaay later in the game.

And yes space is dangerous, and if your not strong enough to stand it, you need to become part of a group that can. thats what squads are all about.

Originally Posted by Istanbul

I would view the turrets as being controlled by the pilot via remote control, as opposed to the pilot running back through the ship to get in the turret in SW Millenium Falcon style. Like, with the new interface, when you activate the turret, you'd get a popup screen that would take, say, 1/2 of the screen area, and you'd be able to control the turret throughout it's field of fire. Or if you have multiple turrets, throughout the full 360x360 degree range, and then whatever guns can reach where you're aiming would fire. ......
What would be really sweet is if people could use the Track IR feature in a way similar to the Armies attack choppers, where the targeting follows the pilots head movements. Look left, at that enemy tank and fire a Hellfire missile at the illegitimate son of a female dog. Then a few hundred rounds out of their vulcan cannon for good measure.

Well, maybe that would be getting a bit too extreme, keep the front guns fixed I guess.

Good ideas, I'd like to see them tested to figure out what kind of impact they make on PvP and the game in general. And any good use of trackIR sounds awesome to me, I really want to get one of those.

Of coarse there would have to be a backup system for people that can't afford the track IR

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by netburnrol

Ok, first paragraph looks like defense of a single person ship with the ability to operate a turret remotly. 2nd paragraph looks like you think turrets are dumb unless in a large combat ship, and 3rd paragraph is just plain confused.

Yes, having a 2nd person in the ship with ANY control of the flight system will cause problems, no ifs ands or buts about it.

As far as fighter ships with turrets, the only way I see that working is with Karash's design ideas, and those should come out waaay later in the game.

And yes space is dangerous, and if your not strong enough to stand it, you need to become part of a group that can. thats what squads are all about.

First paragraph was me saying rolling doesn't really matter. I think going to the extra effort of coding miner and hauler turrets to be manned by a second player would be a complete waste of coding time. I think they really really need turrets, but there's no reason the pilot can't hop in the turret when it's needed.

Space is dangerous, they have no reason to design ships to be defenseless. It's just bad design. I get the impression you're just another vocal griefer terrified your victims might be able to defend themselves from you.

[Lordopic]

In the far off distant future ( ok right here in my head ) Mega Corp Tens And Piney Systems has just made its latest Interplanetary deep space heavy mover it’s a behemoth of a thing over shadowing the Viceroy the once pride of the Solrain trading fleet.

Now what trader in his right mind would jump in and set off to the friendly space lanes of Octaiva, with out the knowledge that his/her arse isn’t covered by the latest Tens And Piney heavy flak mortar cannons to quote the company slogan

"Cover your Hiney with Tens and Piney".

I think this turret debate will go on for as long as the last one but with bringing Jumpgate into line with modern space games be it solo or MMO then I think they are well over due, AI or person controlled ( in the sense the pilot do’s it not some one else sitting shotgun that eally has no appeal, ok maybe for a short run.) Im not sure.

I think too many people are thinking Jumpgate Evolution will just be Jumpgate with a few bells and whistles and not the complete over haul/new game ND has been hinting at.