[Karash]

Ok, who here (besides me) hates the star trek lasers in the original jumpgate? I wish so fervently they would ax them for pulse type lasers...hell even featherfire type lasers.

[Radi]

Little more explanation on why? I don't mind them.

[Karash]

The reason I dont like Star Trek weapons is the instantanous hit they give so pilots cannot use much of any defensive manuevers in weapon avoidance.

I am sure i misspelled about 5 words there but you get the idea.

Circle Fighting was about the only way to fight in Jumpgate...it would be nice to break that up a bit and I think "Star Trek" weapons greatly inspire said fighting. Adding very weak lateral thrusters (hat controled, L/R/U/D) would also give pilots more options in PVP/PVE. Hell...ships could factor that into their designs (some better, some worse).

[Karash]

Actually Jump, could you just move this to the Ideas forum? Sorry, I am a JSR newb here. thx

[Radi]

I don't know. I can see your point. But the thing I like about Jumpgate is that it didn't really matter too much. If you were good, you did good in PvP no matter the weapon (well, mostly, I sucked with ammo).

And hitting LF or MF with ammo is not easy. LF's and MF's changed the game on the evasion side of PvP.

[Karash]

I agree...hitting with ammo especially against LFs and MFs was really hard...which I think should be the case with most ships

[Jump]

Originally Posted by Karash

Actually Jump, could you just move this to the Ideas forum? Sorry, I am a JSR newb here. thx

Moved as requested.

[Injustice]

Well, here's the deal. Neither Star Trek or Star Wars got the concept of lasers right to begin with, same with Jumpgate. To be realistic, lasers would travel faster and straighter than any of the afforementioned genre's depicted them. You're talking about a concentrated stream of protons travelling at the speed of light, after all. In a real physics environment, you wouldn't even need a duelist to account for deflection.

A more correct representation would be to call them directed energy weapons. But that's a moot point. I don't really see how changing the way "lasers" work in Jumpgate would achieve anything. IMO they've always been balanced. You have three main classes of mounted weapons in the game, plasma, ammo, and lasers (I would count ions as being a sub-class of laser and mortars as ammo).

Plasma weapons are the heavy hitters with unlimited ammo and a fast refire rate, but notoriously slow, medium range, and heavy on power drain. Ammo being the middle ground in velocity with excellent damage and long range, but limited ammo and the largest differential on capacitor drain and refire time (railguns vs. mortars). Lasers are also heavy on power needs, have short range, and unilaterally have the longest refire time with relatively low damage potential, but are extremely accurate.

If you slow down lasers, then you essentially take away a pilots option to choose. That's contrary to the opinion that the game needs more variety which you mentioned earlier.

[Karash]

Well, I am not referring to anything 'realistic'...I just want 'fun', regardless of physics. The current laser situation I think is vastly 'not fun' as it promotes only a single 'best' tactical strategy which is the circle fight. Sure, this is all opinions...and I know there are people that seriously disagree with mine, but try this one night (hard to do with current subs):

Get 15 players on each side in the Sim. Outfit them with all lasers and fight. Note how long it takes for the fight to conclude, and the general feeling by everyone.

Now get the same 15 players on each side and outfit them all with ammo based weapons and go at it again. Once the fight concludes (it will be much longer), get the general feeling by everyone.

I almost promise you that everyone would have more fun in the second fight.

[Karash]

Additionally, I am totally against limiting a player's choice in weapons. It is important that we have a vast range of weapons to pick from all with their own unique characteristics, postitives and negatives. ND could come up with a ton of balanced weapons such as: Rail Guns, Mortars, Plasmas, MGs, Pulse (type) lasers, Missiles, etc...

[Eraser55]

For me ammo is more fun to shoot with then laser.. just because of firing rate. I love the constant noise of pounding shield/armor. this can be done with lasers if u choose a smaller cap.. but then u only shoot 1 gun at time.. so it doesn't give u more firepower/sec.

I did switch to lasers cause ammo is slow when it comes to hitting circling ships.

I don't know how it will be in Jumpgate Evolution. But I hope for something better.

[Injustice]

Originally Posted by Karash

Well, I am not referring to anything 'realistic'...I just want 'fun', regardless of physics. The current laser situation I think is vastly 'not fun' as it promotes only a single 'best' tactical strategy which is the circle fight. Sure, this is all opinions...and I know there are people that seriously disagree with mine, but try this one night (hard to do with current subs):

Get 15 players on each side in the Sim. Outfit them with all lasers and fight. Note how long it takes for the fight to conclude, and the general feeling by everyone.

Now get the same 15 players on each side and outfit them all with ammo based weapons and go at it again. Once the fight concludes (it will be much longer), get the general feeling by everyone.

I almost promise you that everyone would have more fun in the second fight.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head with that one. The problem is, how often in the past four years have we seen 30 pilots together in a single sector, much less the sim? Lasers became the dominant PvP weapon of choice because a majority of PvP encounters were 1vs1 and 2vs2, meaning that, more often than not, the guy you're shooting at is shooting back at you. Couple that with the belief that circle fighting is the preferred way to duel, and you begin to see a pattern. IF Jumpgate Evolution produces PvP the likes of which will produce large fleet battles, I think you'll start to see ammo and plasma gain a lot of popularity.