[Magnus]

Originally Posted by sentinels

ike has been in the game for many years and was a beta tester. he's probably logged more hours than most other pilots.

Looking at his pilot profile, i can say that after your words i expected something a lot more ... impressive. 1.5K hours logged is certainly not "more hours than most other pilots", i have 2.5K for example.

Originally Posted by sentinels

before you even started PVPing and they understand things from a much deeper/greater level than just pointing your guns at someone and shooting.

Again, looking at his pilot profile i wouldn't say that he was very successfull in applying all that deep understanding.

Originally Posted by sentinels

you may be more aware of the current state of the game and the PVP atmosphere, but how does that tie into Jumpgate Evolution's implementation

Hm.. well.. i though that making a suggestion is a way to try and improve something that in your opinion is bad/wrong/not exists in current implementation, considering Jumpgate Evolution is based on the same flyght engine and has the same concept... yea... i would say suggestions should be pretty much based on current situation in Jumpgate Classic and not on what was there in beta.

Originally Posted by sentinels

please check your ego/attitude at the door and try to add to the suggestions instead of throwing out a 'holier-than-thou' attitude. everyone here is trying to make helpful suggestions so that ND can take the input and filter out what they want/need.

It's not my ego, sent. I'm really worried about game's future and my attitude is dictated by the fact that i already seen sooo many suggestions on how to change PvP from ppl who's combat experience is more than limited.
And btw i actually did added to the suggestions and before all this started i only asked ppl to suggest changes that would be really usefull(like shield and power managment - shield/guns/engines) instead of inventing something that has no real meaning and would only be annoying.
......................


Now, about your suggestions. Why would getting hit would heat up your shields? make them loose power and draw more energy from reactor - yes, but heat up ... why?

[sentinels]

Originally Posted by Magnus

Looking at his pilot profile, i can say that after your words i expected something a lot more ... impressive. 1.5K hours logged is certainly not "more hours than most other pilots", i have 2.5K for example.


Again, looking at his pilot profile i wouldn't say that he was very successfull in applying all that deep understanding.


Hm.. well.. i though that making a suggestion is a way to try and improve something that in your opinion is bad/wrong/not exists in current implementation, considering Jumpgate Evolution is based on the same flyght engine and has the same concept... yea... i would say suggestions should be pretty much based on current situation in Jumpgate Classic and not on what was there in beta.


It's not my ego, sent. I'm really worried about game's future and my attitude is dictated by the fact that i already seen sooo many suggestions on how to change PvP from ppl who's combat experience is more than limited.
And btw i actually did added to the suggestions and before all this started i only asked ppl to suggest changes that would be really usefull(like shield and power managment - shield/guns/engines) instead of inventing something that has no real meaning and would only be annoying.
......................


Now, about your suggestions. Why would getting hit would heat up your shields? make them loose power and draw more energy from reactor - yes, but heat up ... why?

so then, in using your argument, i'm probably the worst (or one of) PVPer on the server, correct? you can't go by pilot stats alone. who knows how many beta hours he also logged? i'm not trying to discredit you, but to say that ike has no credibility in this realm is a very incorrect assumption. and is purely an assumption since you've never really flown with or against him.

suggestions for Jumpgate Evolution should not only include existing gameplay, but new and unknown entities as well.. if you just confine your thought process on how it works now and use that as a basis, we'll all end up in the same game as Jumpgate Classic. you need to expand that and 'think outside of the box', so to speak. it's basically a brand new game with certain existing elements being brought in, but the sky's the limit for this one, i think. well, so long as there's balance and it works well enough for everyone.

as for the shields heating up. if you have a laser that emits energy hitting another object/entity that also emits energy, energy build-up would cause heat. therefore, since shields absorb the laser's energy, heat is the resulting effect. at least, that's how my logic works (don't know if real physics applies it the same way). 'course, i'm not fond of having things heat up, so i'd probably pass on the heat suggestion for Jumpgate Evolution.

[Chemdog]

Originally Posted by sentinels

as for the shields heating up. if you have a laser that emits energy hitting another object/entity that also emits energy, energy build-up would cause heat. therefore, since shields absorb the laser's energy, heat is the resulting effect. at least, that's how my logic works (don't know if real physics applies it the same way). 'course, i'm not fond of having things heat up, so i'd probably pass on the heat suggestion for Jumpgate Evolution.

To quote mrheh:

we don't need a science discussion here, it really has no place in the game.

[Karash]

Well I really wish we would check our Egos at the door, and actually read all the posts in this thread. There are a lot of 'concerns' that are already responded to by the OP, and other posters. Additionally...basing your opinion on someone else's worth to the discuss based on pilot stats is ludicrous to be sure. Just know that many OEC members have death stats because thats how I flew the wing into combat. We either won, or we took a pod ride home. There were fights larger than the entire average (peak) server population over the last 2 years...do not come in this thread and act like you are gods gift to "PVP".

Jumpgate Classic is a flawed game design...that is one reason it failed. We all hope that Jumpgate Evolution will push the boundries of the original Jumpgate design to make it more popular and fun. While we all have disagreements with each other, especially in this forum, lets retain a sense of class and dignity when debating our differences.

[Ambrosius]

I like the ideas. I have often thought that fuel -- not just AB -- should be a somewhat limited resource. But it should go a pretty long way.

Engine heat, to me, is just one aspect of the whole concept of equipment damage, that was introduced conceptually a LONG time ago. We even have equipment damage indicators on the cockpit UI -- it just was never introduced.

I'd love to see equipment damage, and I'd love to see Flashfire usage as one way to do MAJOR wear and tear on an engine (along with extended AB usage).

[Tim]

I can only imagine what it must have been like the first time somebody proposed the concept of an ammo gun...

"What? limited ammo?!?! Are you insane? I can't fight and fly and flux and download pr0n and watch my ammo levels at the same time!!! There's no way!! Too much managing of the ship!! I shouldn't have to worry about where i can dock! You are a flight-time grief3r!"

Then a couple of geeks show up and lay down some calculations on mass per unit volume and relative density as it relates to storage capacity.

6 hours later there are 5 flame posts, 6 people fixated on who knows more about what, and 2 miners arguing about who's laser is longer.

Good times.

On a serious note, I like the engine heat idea. It's not unlike the effect of altitude on airplanes, in that it's inversely proportional to speed. I think it would add some good depth and dimension to combat, whether it's pvp or pve.

[Karash]

Originally Posted by Ambrosius

I like the ideas. I have often thought that fuel -- not just AB -- should be a somewhat limited resource. But it should go a pretty long way.

Engine heat, to me, is just one aspect of the whole concept of equipment damage, that was introduced conceptually a LONG time ago. We even have equipment damage indicators on the cockpit UI -- it just was never introduced.

I'd love to see equipment damage, and I'd love to see Flashfire usage as one way to do MAJOR wear and tear on an engine (along with extended AB usage).

Ambro, maybe thats one way to balance out Octs against the faster factions (in general) in that they could have tougher engines able to withstand the heat for longer periods of time, while Solrain and especially Quantar could push them ferociously but pay the price much sooner.

[alphabet]

Originally Posted by Karash

Ambro, maybe thats one way to balance out Octs against the faster factions (in general) in that they could have tougher engines able to withstand the heat for longer periods of time, while Solrain and especially Quantar could push them ferociously but pay the price much sooner.

Exactly! There are some great ideas here guys!

In regards to what would happen if you ran out of fuel, we pretty much covered that in the first or second page.. oh hell, i dunno, its in there somewhere. You would still be able to use thruster, so you wouldnt be DIW or DIS (dead in space), but you would be awefully slow exactly how slow can be play tested. Some possiblities for a pilot if they run out of fuel are signaling NPC or PC refuelers, but they get paid for their services. Best not to get in that situation.

Secondly, in order to get rid of unlimited fuel, you have to get rid of the fuel charges. Being a pilot for TRI, whether your a pirate or not, you should be allowed certain amminities for fighting the conflux. A basic kit, fuel and ammo are provided to pilots to limit the scurge. Everything else you have to pay for, like it is currently.

I really believe that this stuff would enhance PvP not deminish it. However, everyone has the right to their own opinion, but lets remember to keep it civil.
Keep the ideas coming fellas, good stuff.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Chemdog

Am I the only one here (except Lordo) who thinks that in an advanced space-faring society we'd be using nuclear powered spacecraft? I'm sorry, but I think the idea of limiting fuel just doesn't fit in with what we have going here.

Heat on the other hand... I like. In fact, if you figure in heat, you can probably remove AB fuel all together. Simply run your engines at higher capacity with the effect of increased heat production. And rather then different engine efficiencies effecting how much AB fuel they have, have them effect how much heat they dissipate. I don't think there should be any reason to not let people run at 100% throttle almost indefinitely, you can't tell me there futuristic scientists can't come up with an engine that runs below meltdown temps, but you could incorporate overheating to reduced flying speeds until the temp comes down below redline.

Magnus - clearly you have no idea with whom you are arguing, but I assure you Ikeprof has spent more than his fair share of hours in combat. In fact, I have seen OEC run ridiculously organized flying formations into combat for no reason other than they RP'd an extremely disciplined military squad. When was the last time you bothered to pay attention to your proximity to 3 of your squadmates while heading into battle? Personally, that's usually the last thing on my priority list. Trust that his suggestions on pvp are well founded. Try to keep in mind that as Jumpgate-E starts getting closer, many vets are going to be returning to the game. And being as Jumpgate has been around a long time (6 or 7 years), you're not the only pilot who's been around the block.

I agree with you Chemdog, I really don't htink limited fuel or the inability to fly 100% throttle indefinately is a good idea.

[Magnus]

Originally Posted by sentinels

so then, in using your argument, i'm probably the worst (or one of) PVPer on the server, correct? you can't go by pilot stats alone. who knows how many beta hours he also logged? i'm not trying to discredit you, but to say that ike has no credibility in this realm is a very incorrect assumption. and is purely an assumption since you've never really flown with or against him.

You're stats are quite good and i've seen you in space as well, so no need to exaggerate - 38% KR and 120% have quite a big difference don't you agree? I have seen crap pilots with good stats(means they are killstealing from the back of their m8s) but i never seen good PvPer with crap stats, that's just impossible, if someone is good he will get good stats anyway.
What's the point of counting beta hours 6 years after that? In beta it was completely different game. I think that making assumption based on pilot stats is better than saying someone is good PvPer cause he can fly in good formation.

Originally Posted by sentinels

suggestions for Jumpgate Evolution should not only include existing gameplay, but new and unknown entities as well.. if you just confine your thought process on how it works now and use that as a basis, we'll all end up in the same game as Jumpgate Classic. you need to expand that and 'think outside of the box', so to speak. it's basically a brand new game with certain existing elements being brought in, but the sky's the limit for this one, i think. well, so long as there's balance and it works well enough for everyone.

Well, it will not be a whole new game like you probably expect it to be. There you go again ppl EP2 same story again. You expect too much and then what? You will all leave again?
I would say it would be same game with the new graphics and A LOT of new stuff brought in. New content, new equipment/ships, improved storyline, more things to do etc... but still Jumpgate.
As i said before, i'm all up for cool new stuff in game, i just asked for it to be usefull, not just one more annoying things to worry about, but something that would give you more options.

Originally Posted by sentinels

as for the shields heating up. if you have a laser that emits energy hitting another object/entity that also emits energy, energy build-up would cause heat. therefore, since shields absorb the laser's energy, heat is the resulting effect. at least, that's how my logic works (don't know if real physics applies it the same way). 'course, i'm not fond of having things heat up, so i'd probably pass on the heat suggestion for Jumpgate Evolution.

Hm.. well, shield is suppose to be kind of a force field around the ship, so it shouldn't heat up anything inside the ship really. Only possible effect i see there is drawing more energy to sustain damage that is when it would be good to, say, drop energy from lasers to 0 and draw it all to shield and engine ... or radar maybe? Make it dependant on energy as well: more energy you give to the radar, bigger range you get... so a miner can see far away while sitting at the roid... stuff like that.

Originally Posted by Karash

Well I really wish we would check our Egos at the door, and actually read all the posts in this thread. There are a lot of 'concerns' that are already responded to by the OP, and other posters. Additionally...basing your opinion on someone else's worth to the discuss based on pilot stats is ludicrous to be sure.

Well, you know what, it would be probably not the best idea for me to make suggestions for economy changes cause even though i did a fare share of hauling long time ago(hundreds of hours) i don't know a great deal about the economy and i'll leave it to ppl who actually enjoy doing that stuff... i'll let them make suggestions on that part of the game cause they will play it most. See where i'm trying to get here?

Originally Posted by Karash

Just know that many OEC members have death stats because thats how I flew the wing into combat. We either won, or we took a pod ride home.

I can understand RP reason for fighting till the last man we do that sometimes, but it doesn't mean the wing has to be dieing all the time, now does it? Or maybe if it does, then pilots in the wing should spend more time shooting enemies and less time worrying about formation? Not that it's not important at all, but a bit less important than shooting.

Originally Posted by Karash

There were fights larger than the entire average (peak) server population over the last 2 years...do not come in this thread and act like you are gods gift to "PVP".

Let's see, average population have been around 30-40 ppl. Well, i've been in such before. Nothing really different there. I had a blast of course, lots of fun but.. what's your point here?
You know what my fear is? 2 years ago ppl asked Ist for a minning-dependant economy. They got what they asked for and than they left and the rest of the playerbase had to deal with something they don't want. Now, i don't want this to happen to Jumpgate Evolution.

You could at least start flying again guys, cause on forums everyone is fantastic PvPer and knows game inside out, but they just never launch...