[Desirsar]

Originally Posted by Ambrosius

No safe zones from what I can see. Just major consequences.

I like this, but it will have to be fine-tuned a lot based on the way the Jumpgate Evolution econ shakes out. e.g. There will be no "equipment" as in Jumpgate Classic -- just guns, missiles and mods.

Got a quote or a link on that? That means no purposeful mining or hauling for the economy - and in that case, I doubt I'd even beta the game, never mind buy it. I might as well go back to WWII flight sims...

[DLinkOZ]

Originally Posted by Ambrosius

I think he said what he meant. Mils can shoot mils, Outlaws and Inies. Just not TRIs (without major consequences). So if you want to go carebear, go TRI.

I think that Mils shooting other Mils should automatically invoke some sort of agressive action and instigate a "war" status. And Mils should only be open to shoot Indies if they've committed acts of war against whatever Mil group they're a member of. Much like Mil v. TRI as stated above, but once an Indie shoots a single Mil, he's fodder for the entire group automatically. This is equates to a more granular bounty system, and if someone has chosen to go carebear with TRI, they're not allowed to be a selective carebear... indiscretions amongsts Indies and Mils stay between Indies and Mils, not entire factions as with the previous bounty system.

[ZeroZ95]

Indie is also for the PvPer who does not mind self-funding so they can use the best gear from every faction (it's similar to the old HG). Indie being unprotected makes them fair targets for Mils.

MT can shoot their own MT, otherwise you have problems with taking bounties for friendly fire. Not to mention AssHats with multiple accounts using your own MT tags as a way to become invulnerable and screw you (stripping, spying, beacing).

Outlaws don't get Exp, which is a distinction between them and Indie beyond the social stigma and obvious fat target painted on Outlaw's back. However, I do see that they need a bigger distinction, so Outlaws probably need to pay more for insurance than Indies (higher risk for the insurance co.) and/or get 0% coverage on cargo.

Yes TRIs are highly protected in reg space. The old way ended up with a ton of Civs being leaving the game because "get an escort" doesn't work, and Jumpgate Classic just wasn't a safe enough game for them. I think we can cater to everyone.

We need a tag that makes every type of player happy.

• TRIs don't want to get shot ever. Fine, but they also have pretty limited play options.
• Indies haulers don't mind getting shot from time to time, so they have more options.
• MTs don't want to have to PvE just to finance their PvP, so fine but they have limited equipment options.
• Indie PvPers are willing to self-finance PvP, so they get rewarded with broader equipment options.

I've been every type of player above. I've wanted to never get shot as a noobish fluxlord. I've wanted some high risk/reward hauling. I've not minded hauling some to finance my PvP habit. And I've wanted to just log in, launch and die a few times without worrying about spending hours building/stocking gear and funds to do so.


Obviously the suggestion does not exactly fit Jumpgate Evolution anymore now that we know more about Jumpgate Evolution. But I still think we should not create a game that by nature clearly excludes any of the major gamer types: carebear, fearless hauler, casual PvP, and hard core PvP.

[Jump]

It all sounds way too complicated to me.

[DLinkOZ]

Indie haulers... so haulers who are cool with being shot at any time? Name a pilot willing to take that risk with a load of dreams on a consistent basis. I would say what you're proposing looks good, if Indie could be slightly toned down from the "always a target" role you're suggesting. If it's a rough equivalent of the old HG, then there's a definite lack of middle ground between 100% carebear and 100% pvp.

[netburnr]

Anything that "sounds" too complicated, is WAY to complicated.

SIMPLE PvP rules or no rules at all FTW

[ZeroZ95]

What is not simple about "don't shoot TRI, do shoot everyone else" for PvP rules?

[DLinkOZ]

Originally Posted by ZeroZ95

What is not simple about "don't shoot TRI, do shoot everyone else" for PvP rules?

So it's civ/hg? So nothing's changed. Not saying that's good or bad, just saying it.

[ZeroZ95]

I don't think that my simplistic shoot/don't shoot rules does = HG/Civ.

IMO, a large failure in the HG/Civ system was the incorrect perception that Civ = safety. It set up a lot of people to get pissed at unexpected deaths. And it set up a lot of people to leave Jumpgate when they realized there was no real safe tag. Indie simply adjusts people's expectations correctly, while TRI does give carebears real safety.

I would anticipate that the middleground haulers would fly TRI sometimes and fly Indie sometimes, usually while escorted. But their perception would be properly managed. This is an important point, IMO.

[DLinkOZ]

The only way to be perfectly safe, in my opinion, is to not interact with others. We all know what will happen - some TRI-tagged player will mouth and mouth and mouth. Those he's mouthing to will either be unable to do anything, and enough of the mouthy TRI pilots will drive them off. Or they will be able to do something, which will drive the offending player off. It's a delicate balance, but I don't believe anyone should ever be 100% safe and expectations should be set accordingly. There should be harsh penalties, yes, but retaliation must be available.

[dahalb]

I agree! In essence the dilemma lies in what the ramifications are for downing a TRI pilot. If the punishment is too low, then TRI "protection" is minimal, if it is too high, then the "protection" may be too much. The balance will come when the punishment is so high as to dissuade a downing for its own sake, while still allowing those who are willing to endure the climb back from oblivion to down those pilots who use TRI's protection to get away with behaviour that is of a despicable nature.