[Tritian]

I originally posted this in another thread, but I think it'd get more feedback from people/constructive criticism if I posted it in it's own thread. So here is my plan to fix the bounty system. Please read it in it's entirety as it's a package-deal.

I definately believe killers should get bounties for ripping people in non-combat vessels. Just not 20million credits. Not even 10million credits. I'd say a set max of 5million credits for a TRI hard-coded bounties that actually come out of the pirates pocket.

Now here's the big thing: A Solrain bounty doesn't pay in Oct or Quant space, and vice versa for the other factions. This means that I could have a 1million credit bounty in Solrain, and a 5million credit bounty in Quant space. This would have the effect of forcing the civripper OUT of the faction space he civrips.

In addition, i'd add a /bounty command that only works on people who have negative PR. Any pilot could use /bounty to place a bounty that would come out of their bank account. People might think this kind of command could get exploited, ie: McPlowed placing a 100mil bounty on me so everyone kills me. But I think that would be foolish to the person who issues the /bounty, because the pirate could be in cahoots w/ the guy who collects. This would act as a natural limit to keep /bounty's issued w/ the command at a reasonable credit amount. Also, if you just did /bounty <pilot name>, it'd show you the total bounty for that person, so you could tell if you'd want to even issue a /bounty. It'd be foolish to keep adding /bounty's to someone who already has a big bounty from other people. If you die, and have player-issued bounties on your head, it doesn't matter who's space you're in.

Furthermore, if you do civrip a lot... say more then 5 people. You get a mark that other people can see when they target you, similar to the bounty or MT symbol. You can never loose this mark, even if you clear your bounty. This will let people know who the hardcore civrippers are. If you kill a ton of civs for a certain faction... maybe 15 or more, you can be perma-bountied for that faction. This means that you'll always have a bounty in that factions space if you die there for the remainder of your career until you reset or a GM removes the perma-bounty due to some RP action.

Now, thats all for non-combat ships. If you were to kill a civilian fighting ship, the penalties would be far more lenient. Every civ fighting vessel you kill would lower your existing PR in that faction by anywhere between -5pr to -35pr points per kill. So if you had 100pr in oct, and you killed an dragon, you might drop to +95oct pr, but civrip a raven, and you'd fall to to +65pr. The reason being that fighter vessels are better prepared to.. well.. fight, and run. Also, that way pirates could defend themselves if their attacked for their bounties without getting too much deeper into bounty-debt.

Finally, I'd add a seperate civkill stat on JOSSH.

[Tim]

I'm ashamed to admit it, but i opened this thread expecting to be driven to tears by whatever it contained, but i was very, very wrong.

I like it. If I may be so bold, I might suggest that perhaps when dealing with civ-rips of combat class vessels, the level of the civ should be the deciding factor rather than the ship class.. If a level 50 pilot shows up in a med fighter, it's probably because he likes his odds with it. if a level 18 pilot shows up in the same, it's probably because he can't get into something else. So making it tied to pilot level rather than ship type (only for combat-class ships) seems to make sense to me. Also, and you saw this comming, i might suggest that the max penalty be somewhat larger than only -35.. if one downs a level 10 pilot, that should hurt. Really hurt, i mean.

The other adjustment i might suggest, if you'll allow me, would be the method of establishing the 'Max Bounty'. 5 Million is put forward in your original idea.. the thing is, we don't know what 5 million actually means in Jumpgate Evolution terms. Can a pilot make 10 mil in an hour, or is it like the current economy where 2-3 mil/hr is more normal (for a pilot who's goal is to make money, of course).

So perhaps the 'Max Bounty' should be based on server-wide average pilot net worth, or mean net worth, or perhaps even the cost of a particular vessel type (max bounty = the value of the Heavy Fighter). Just something that is tied to an in-game value, rather than a big, round number.

This certainly does appear to solve some problems. Stinking pie rats anyway.

[Wild_Bill]

Not opposed to this proposal. I want to discourage civ-rips against non-combat ships. Period.

I would like the bounty to be tied to the amount of losses the "victim" suffers. If the "victim's" loss (after insurance) is 2mc, then the bounty is 2mc. If the loss is 20mc, then that's what the bounty should be. I would also retain the bounty coming out of the attacker's own pocket.

Faction specific bounties, the multi-rip signage and it being permanent all sound like good ideas. I only worry some folks would deliverately seek such notoriaty, so perhaps earning the multi-rip medal should act as a booster for the bounty? Say 20% for each 5 rip? (4mc surcharge on a 20mc bounty for example).

I do agree that attacks on combat ships, regardless of registration/tags should be viewed as a "lesser offense" when compared to non-combat ships. Perhaps 1/2 or 1/4 of the post insurance costs? And I wouldn't count civ rips on combat craft toward the multi-rip medal or whatever it ends up being called.

Tell you what, how about ALL rips on non-combat ships (even MT or in unreg) showing up and counting for the multi-rip medal? This might be a more accurate indication of a civ pilot's danger when encountering said pilot in either reg or unreg. For instance, I KNEW Balrogs reputation in unreg and gave them the proper respect (okay FEAR) in relationship to that when I spotted them in unreg.

Anyway, good ideas Tritian!

[Tritian]

Originally Posted by Tim

If I may be so bold, I might suggest that perhaps when dealing with civ-rips of combat class vessels, the level of the civ should be the deciding factor rather than the ship class..

... perhaps the 'Max Bounty' should be based on server-wide average pilot net worth, or mean net worth, or perhaps even the cost of a particular vessel type (max bounty = the value of the Heavy Fighter). Just something that is tied to an in-game value, rather than a big, round number.

I like the idea regarding tieing the -pr to the level of the pilot of the combat vessel rather then the class of combat vessel. Good suggestion.

Regarding the max bounty, i think since we dont know about Jumpgate Evolution, we should stick to what we do know in comparisions and assume that Jumpgate Evolution will have virtually the same economy as Jumpgate Classic does. That said, I think 5mil is an OK number. perhaps even a bit too high. But I wouldn't want the max to be based off of class-of-ship you rip, because the ships are insanely expensive. IE: 9mil for a freighter. It's not like the person you're civripping is really losing that much money anyway..

Originally Posted by Wild_Bill

I would like the bounty to be tied to the amount of losses the "victim" suffers.

I only worry some folks would deliverately seek such notoriaty, so perhaps earning the multi-rip medal should act as a booster for the bounty? Say 20% for each 5 rip? (4mc surcharge on a 20mc bounty for example).

how about ALL rips on non-combat ships (even MT or in unreg) showing up and counting for the multi-rip medal?

Hmmm, regarding tieing it in to the amount the victim suffers, that sounds like a good idea to me. However, it should be a fractional amount of what the victim suffers. In real life, bounties on pirates were always FAR less then what the pirates actually stole. It doesn't make sense to force huge bounties on pirates from RP standpoint or from a gameplay mechanics standpoint.

Regarding the multirip symbol, it'd be just a symbol that shows up when someone targets you. It's not a medal. There is no reason to make it give you any additional penalties. That's not the purpose of it. it's purpose is to just show people that you're a bad mofo so watch out. =)

Regarding seeking it for notorioty... i'm sure some people would do that. If someone does want it, then the're precisely the type of person who should have it. The symbol would be doing it's job. It's ment to show people an aspect of your character, not as a punishment.

[vorlon31]

I think the civ ripper should pay the victims entire insurance cost outside of any unreg sectors (ship and cargo).

If you want to rip someone, then be assured their pilots logs are going to be interrogated by their insurance company with some speed and the costs passed on to the perp. + a small bounty

We all fly with traceable naming tags on our ships and should be held accountable for our actions.

If you havent the credits for the rip, then you suffer a gun/missile lock as the first round lands..

Big brother is watching you and he holds the key to your bank account.

[SingleShot]

Originally Posted by vorlon31

I think the civ ripper should pay the victims entire insurance cost outside of any unreg sectors (ship and cargo).

Civ chips are bad, mkay?

[vorlon31]

better that then Tritgate.

[Tritian]

Originally Posted by vorlon31

I think the civ ripper should pay the victims entire insurance cost outside of any unreg sectors (ship and cargo).

If you want to rip someone, then be assured their pilots logs are going to be interrogated by their insurance company with some speed and the costs passed on to the perp. + a small bounty

We all fly with traceable naming tags on our ships and should be held accountable for our actions.

If you havent the credits for the rip, then you suffer a gun/missile lock as the first round lands..

Big brother is watching you and he holds the key to your bank account.

So let me get this straight. You're suggesting that If someone downs a tow full of equipment that they just stripped from a station, then that person who killed the stripper should pay the 50-300million credits to replace the equipment that the person stripped AND the cost for the persons ship aswell?

Yeah, that's pretty much the worst idea on this subject i've heard yet.

[Pyrophred]

I can get behind this one with Tim's addition that the bounty be tied to the level of the victim. Definitely make it relative to the level of the attacker (IE if Im level 15 and I kill another 15 it doesnt carry the same bounty that a level 30 pilot will get for ripping the same level 15)

[Sephiroth]

Except that doesn't make any sense. You don't get better stats because you are a higher level. Sure when you level up you get access to more ships but if the HF was truly the best ship out there just because your level is highest everyone would be flying it for combat, that simply isn't the case so basing bounties on level just doesn't make any sense.

[Wild_Bill]

Makes fairly good sense Seph if you equate "level" with "experience". The more experience you have should make you better at what you do. Particularly combat skills. The more you practice the better you get. This is not absolute of course (me for example), but is generally a good rule of thumb. Part of the reason OAS ROE forbid attacking anyone under level 20 unless they attacked us first. An expert fighting a rookie is just kind of lame, don't you think? Even the game developers seem to think whacking <lvl 10 is not a good thing.

Tritian, on paying the loss of cargo & ship, if you limited the liability to only what the insurance didn't cover it would be more nearly fair. Thus you wouldn't be liable for the 20-30mc but only the 2-3mc that wasn't covered by insurance.