[GrimGriz]

After playing Jumpgate on and off for....however many years it's been since open beta, I think I figured out what made it so great (for me anyway).

Jumpgate was a shell, but really, I'm fairly certain that's what was great about it. There was no real story, which meant that the story was YOU, and your friends. The stuff you and your friends were doing was the one of the most important things going on in the galaxy.

Jumpgate had a lot of problems from the get go, but being the star was what kept people in love with the game for so long. The universe was alive and changing, and they were part of the story. Quest-based games tell you a story, but it never really means a damn to anyone else in WoW that Grimmor took some poison to an NPC.

Quest-based games are fine, but really the content is usually single player content that everyone gets to do. Even the lamest sentient conflux attack is more exciting than any WoW quest I've done, regardless of how well it was written. Jumpgate content was live "you had to be there" stuff, whether it was the players or GMs doing it. A true living MMO, and not just a single player game a bunch of people can play at once.

It is my sincerest hope that Jumpgate Evolution expands on this instead of replacing the players as storyline with players following storylines. If they could harness player actions and turn it into in-game news...or even generate missions based on player actions...Jumpgate Evolution could be something that changes the face of MMOs forever.

If the players aren't center stage of a living breathing galaxy, Jumpgate Evolution will just be some new spaceship game...even if it's an awesome one.

[Ikeprof]

I'm frustrated as heck that I have to leave for work in like 2 minutes, but I wanted to reply.

I don't disagree, but I really don't think that your vision is in any danger.

Thought being, put the framework into place to at least attract the average Joe that just spent 3 years playing EQ and WoW.

He spends a week or so within the confines of Sol space doing a progressive "Kill 10 Space Boars and deliver their innards to Fred the butcher to aid in our Solrain Empire activities".

On his second week, he is tasked with delivering more Space Boar intestines to Lothars Landing. While enroute he passes through a bloody and messy firefight between the Octavian Lunatics and the cold money hungry Solrain die hard troops.

If from that point forward his desire is to continue delivering Space Boar intestines through ever increasingly difficult methods or stop and say "hey..my Solrain brothers need me"...then he truly is unimaginative..but that's ok..he adds to the NPC's that are scurrying about delivering NPC Space Boar entrails.

Where it gets stick and ugly is when his deliver Space Boar Intestines conflicts with player based content....say...a group of radicals holding down a station ...oh say EE..and another group of lunatics attempting to break that hold. The guy can barely fly, let alone read chat and dock...so he's gonna be slightly pissed when his Space Boar quest is ruined because he got blown out of the sky LOL.

Anyhow, I have to roll....I do also have the best interests of this game at heart, I just don't know that the Average Joe is interested in taking a blank canvas and painting his own masterpiece upon it. For those of us who are, Space Boar entrails holds little interest than something to pass the time when no adversarial lunatics are online to fight.

[daslog]

New players are going to expect the following:

1) Static quests (missions) that they can do alone
2) Static questions (missions) that they can do with a group
3) The ability to reach the maximum level without having to engage in PvP
4) Penalties for PvP need to be minimal.


What does this mean for JPE? It means either a lot of fundamental things are going to have to change from the original or a lot of new players will give up and play something else. Some examples:

Insurance should never be able to go below 95%. Punishing people for PvPing is just not a good idea. Death should just sting a little. If it hurts too much, players will just cancel and play something else. I’ll talk more about PvP in another post.

New mechanics will be needed to support Multi-player missions will be needed. For example, Escorting AI freighters from one sector to another will require group chat, group radar, and AI Pirates that attack the freighter in every sector. Maybe even a mission difficulty setting.

[Injustice]

I don't like the idea of taking away death penalties, as it was part of the charm and excitement of PvP in Jumpgate. We've been using EVE a lot as an example lately, which I hate doing, but when you get down to it, the death penalties for the two games were the same.

Something a lot of people seemingly didn't realize (maybe still don't) is that, before the new mil tag system (meaning civ/HG/no tags period), a players insurance rating was a direct result of their launches/landings and (IIRC) there mission completion percentage, meaning anyone who was taking a big insurance hit whenever they died was as a result of getting into the game too early (a problem easily corrected by spending a day or two padding your launch/landing stats to stabilize your insurance rating).

I say I hate comparing Jumpgate to other MMO's because I don't feel that keeping the status quo is a good thing. Jumpgate Evolution shouldn't have PvE "raids in space" just because other MMO's do, which isn't to say it's not a good idea, just don't do it for the sake of playing follow the leader. The biggest challenge for Jumpgate Evolution is going to be keeping it unique while making it mainstream enough to garner some popular attention. IMO the best way to do that is by surprising people, not making them feel at home.

[daslog]

The more I think about, the more I think tags should just go.

Make Faction space no PvP
Make Unreg open PvP

Put some good stuff in Faction space, and put end game stuff and give incentives in unreg. No other game uses PVP "switches" anymore because it just doesn't work.

[RIDIC]

Originally Posted by daslog

Make Faction space no PvP
Make Unreg open PvP

Some of my favorite fights happened at Sol Core and Quant Core Stations. I think PVP should be allowed anywhere it adds that extra factor. "Will I get podded on this ore run". I never had an issue with tags, mostly I always flew HG (Ambro told me too. ). Just my 2c.

[Raz]

Make Faction space no PvP
Make Unreg open PvP

I can't think of a single other suggestion that would do as dire harm to Jumpgate as that one would.

The whole reason people even still play Jumpgate is because players make an impact.

The reason it failed is because it could not maintain a critical mass of players to maintain the community that a virtual world game like Jumpgate requires, and it was because it expected the player to learn everything himself, or find a vet.

Those who found veterans became for the most part longtime fans of the game, with a devotion that is UNMATCHED by any other game I have ever seen.

Those who did not, quit.

Solving this problem in order to maintain a community in the new Jumpgate is literally the only major problem that must be solved.

Gutting the game and adding in all these crazy ideas runs the chance of killing the inextinguishable fire that lies deep within the game, keeping its spirit alive in all of us.

[Radi]

I'm with GG. One of my better memories were during factional war between Sol and Quant. It gave birth to the "Spammer" . Althought it was mostly due to an article after the last RP of the war by GMK the nickname was popularized, I earned that during the war. While it seams something silly and funny, I have memories that will not fade away.

In Jumpgate, Pilots ARE the story.


Jumpgate(TM) - News

[Wild_Bill]

Making Core sectors "safer" is a good thing. Making a pilot invulnerable in core sector space or anywhere else is a bad thing. While the penalty for "civ rip" should remain very high to discourage causual player killing activities, if you are willing to pay the price you should to be able to attack any one at any time and any where. Safe zones lend to arrogance and smack talk. If you know your butt is going to have to pay the check your smart mouth wrote, it might, just might, modify your behaviour in a civilized manner.

So I vote against "safe zones" of any shape or form, but I do support safer areas where noobs can learn without an instant death sentence. Death in game should have a price. Actions must have consequences or it's meaningless.

As to the story lines/mission/quests, I think that's a good thing for lower level activities. I like the idea even more of player originated or modified story lines. GM's can assist, or perhaps even start a story arc, etc but ultimately it's the players who will make or break the game. Early levels where very difficult for me. Had it not been for Redleg and OAS I'm not sure I would have made it through the first year or have gone on to nearly six years. Not everyone can have a good mentor. We should not blindly risk in-coming new people to catch-as-catch-can learning curve. Directed missions that would cover the entire spectrum of Jumpgate Evolution activities would be a good thing, especially with tutorial pop-ups for the first 5-10 levels.

Anyone remember Regan and R.E.G.A.N. squad? That was good too, even though I had no part in it. She and her squad helped a lot of folks I believe.

[Raz]

Safe zones lend to arrogance and smack talk. If you know your butt is going to have to pay the check your smart mouth wrote, it might, just might, modify your behaviour in a civilized manner.

Oddly enough, Jumpgate had one of the best communities ever.

Ever check WoW's forums lately?

On another note, I'm all for imposing crushing bounties and sending sector dogs after people killing low levels, especially shuttles. It just has to remain possible. Possibility is what drives imagination.

[GrimGriz]

A lot of really cool stuff can be done with the right mission computer AI. For example:

Wake is low on chimes because it needs germanium, so it sets up a group mining mission (or 14) in different sectors, one of which says "Mine 600 units of semi-flux ore from Main Gate sector". Once a group of players accepts that mission, it triggers the mission computer to generate the following mission for the Solrain military:

Mining operations are taking place in Outer Ring, GVB, and Main Gate. Patrol these sectors and responds to any distress calls.

Meanwhile, a scout mission from quant has GVB patrolled and the mission runner passes the mining party. When he turns in his scout mission, that contact triggers a military patrol mission for quantar with "There has been increased Solrain activity in the GVB area. Investigate."

etc. etc.

There'd still be plenty of stuff to do, but there'd be a reason for doing it, and an effect on other players/the galaxy when you did.

[Raz]

The devs should make an 'importance list' attaching levels of importance to all commodities and products. Sending people on missions to fix shortfalls in important product doesn't seem to be impossible and would really help the economy!

[alphabet]

Its already been anounced that NPCs are going to take care of the shortfalls of player economy.

[Milkman]

Originally Posted by alphabet

Its already been anounced that NPCs are going to take care of the shortfalls of player economy.

I re-read these the last 2 posts....

Its my understanding that the NPCs will be covering "shortfalls" if the players themselves do not do the work. So.. if a station needs water... it make a mission... if no player takes and completes said mission after X amount of time... NPC takes mission.

At least thats how i understood it... and if its not that way it should be! :P

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by GrimGriz

A lot of really cool stuff can be done with the right mission computer AI. For example:

Wake is low on chimes because it needs germanium, so it sets up a group mining mission (or 14) in different sectors, one of which says "Mine 600 units of semi-flux ore from Main Gate sector". Once a group of players accepts that mission, it triggers the mission computer to generate the following mission for the Solrain military:

Mining operations are taking place in Outer Ring, GVB, and Main Gate. Patrol these sectors and responds to any distress calls.

Meanwhile, a scout mission from quant has GVB patrolled and the mission runner passes the mining party. When he turns in his scout mission, that contact triggers a military patrol mission for quantar with "There has been increased Solrain activity in the GVB area. Investigate."

etc. etc.

There'd still be plenty of stuff to do, but there'd be a reason for doing it, and an effect on other players/the galaxy when you did.

I don't believe I'm saying this but I agree with GG :P