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Ideas My Factional Warfare System (Epic Length Edition)

Discussion in 'Jumpgate Evolution Archive' started by Karash, Oct 25, 2007.

  1. Karash

    Karash Senior Magnate

    18
    Jun 25, 2007
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    The only way to build 'buildings' so to speak in a sector would be to try and claim the system with a C3 array. Having mineral refineries and onsite production capabilities without having to haul everything back to a factional station. The venture would be a high risk / high reward model for developing a sector.

    I understand its a lot to read, let me know if you do get through it...its definately not perfect.
     
  2. GrimGriz

    GrimGriz Senior Magnate

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    Jul 18, 2004
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    Oh, I read most of it, just skimmed over the specifics in different areas, as those are the specifics that would get hashed out in testing anyway. I still maintain that the sectors need something more than the fighting system to make them worth fighting for. I also think what happens if one side wins needs to be addressed, because that's the rub when it comes to meaningful pvp in a MMO... For example, the combat would have been meaningful in that airplane game we talked about here, but they reset the map after one side won.
     
  3. Karash

    Karash Senior Magnate

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    Jun 25, 2007
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    I would assume the mineral content of the unreg sectors would be very rich, and any other new economic stuff that ND puts in for JGE. I 100% agree that sectors need something 'worth fighting for'.
     
  4. Karash

    Karash Senior Magnate

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    Jun 25, 2007
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    Well looks like most people dont want to read this out...so I will go back to commenting on Modx slots, Emma, and other things JGC. :)
     
  5. Jump

    Jump Administrator Staff Member

    243
    May 22, 2004
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    +822 / 51 / -0
    It has a 183 views so I wouldn't take that as a slight my friend. It's a lot to think about and many may simply agree and not be sure how to comment without leaving much of it out. It's a very nice piece and I hope Scorch got a chance to read it.

    I also notice we now have a bug at that top of the page. :(
     
  6. Scorch

    Scorch Crusader

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    May 16, 2007
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    This is a great thread, and I completely agree with Karash's stated 4 goals.

    We have been working on some things along these lines now. Once we have some progress on this, we'll get you more details but we are still not happy with what we have now. Unfortunately this feature is reasonably massive so its taking some time to work through all the ramifications. However we are taking this "mechanic" FAR beyond just un-reg PvP and making it very extensible to allow for a large variety of options instead of the same basic system each time. As of now this is completely theoretical, subject to change, yada yada yada...

    And, oh yes, there will be the blowing up of stuff. :)
     
  7. Karash

    Karash Senior Magnate

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    Jun 25, 2007
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    Thanks for chiming in Scorch...I know its a massive game balancing headache. Even CCP and Eve Online STILL does not have factional warfare (although players have made their own psuedo factions in reality).
     
  8. Anvil

    Anvil Knight

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    Nov 2, 2007
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    Karash, great job on the post! Like several people said so far some details will need to be play tested. One thing that comes to mind are the time tables for many of the mechanics. 24, 72, etc hours just seems like too long to try to defend something while it is still being built/claimed. Bring those numbers down to 1 or 2 hours but keep the resources required high and I think it would work... but again all in play-testing.

    The ONLY thing I found in your post that I disagreed with was a sense of "Invulnerability". This came up in 2 locations in your post:

    The first was that the C3 array and surrounding structures become "Immune" to ALL damage once they hit 20% for some amount of time. This is a bad idea IMO since it hints at unrealistic mechanics and makes the average player have to be on for like half a dozen hours at least just to see any change in the game due to their actions. And jumpgate has always been a place where people can affect Real Space no matter if they log on for an hour a night or 6 hours a night or more.

    The second sense of "invulnerability" came from the fact that Factional base stations cannot be attacked until like 50% of unregulated space is controlled by the attacking Faction. I think that if one faction amasses a large enough force they should be able to attack the others Factional base stations regardless of what else is going on in space. The fear of "but the base stations will constantly be slaughtered" can simply be corrected by making them VERY hard to siege. Which can be helped by provided some NPC defenders to aid in the defense of Factional Stations among many other ideas.

    Anyway, I still like your post and I really like the Concept of how sectors can be claimed. One thing you didn't mention was how much this can contribute to in game missions. Scouting missions, Sabotage missions, etc now have SUCH a cool place in JG. I can't wait to see what ND has come up with so far.

    Anvil
     
  9. netburnr

    netburnr Senior Magnate

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    Aug 24, 2007
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    Wow, Karash got a Scorch post!

    And Karash don't get down man, this is an AWESOME thread/idea, and I just don't have the brainpower to add anything to it.

    As always your spot on, and I'm with you.
     
  10. Karash

    Karash Senior Magnate

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    Jun 25, 2007
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    The invulnerable 'thing' and long timers are there to ensure the station and its array's are actually defended. We do not want a system in a 24 hour game where the attacker just waits until the enemy is offline and go destroy everything undefended. This system allows the defender to choose the time when the "killing blow" will have to be if the attacker wants to take over the system or kill factional/squad assets.

    I agree its a tad unrealistic...but I believe its a required system if we are going to be fair about the control of initiative (The attacker gets to choose when to attack, the defender gets to choose when to defend afterwards). Again we have to think of JG with 1000s of players, not just 60 per night like we have now. Once the station arrays come out of reinforced mode, the real battle begins to either destroy or repair them in a frantic battle.

    And sorry for being 'down' guys...I know this system wont make it into the game, but I spent some time on it. Just frustrating that we are talking more about a certain rock in the spacelanes and ship concepts that need to be 'evolved' (and yes I am talking about modx slots, ship design, and how everyone on this board thinks we are going to be fitting our ships like we do in JGC).
     
  11. netburnr

    netburnr Senior Magnate

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    Aug 24, 2007
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    Just goes to show how much thinking outside the box you do compared to the rest of us, and that is exactly why I'm glad you are here with us :)
     
  12. Taeryn

    Taeryn Initiate

    1
    Jul 27, 2007
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    After reading this and trying to assimilate all the info, there are a few things that stick out in my mind. One of the main things that struck me is the fact that I have been tending to think of Evolution and the changes I would like to see in extremely limited terms. My mind is still stuck thinking in terms of classic Jumpgate which is a game developed quite a few years ago (ancient in terms of technology) and by a development studio that is much different today than the group that brought us the first Jumpgate. I just can't imagine how different this Jumpgate is going to be. The resources available to build the game and the abilities of the technologies these days should bring us the epic space game we crave. I know that's a pretty lofty expectation, but I don't feel it's misplaced because it's easy to see how much this IP means to all the people working on it.

    More to the point of Karash's post, I think this system he has laid out creates something that is desperately needed -- tangible assets via actions. In the old JG, we had factionalism, squad wars, pirating, etc. but most of those things weren't well defined with meaningful actions that resulted in tangible assets. A system like the one laid out here takes those ideals and gives them an avenue to be played out in the game world with actual structures. I like that this particular system has a time component (it's not a one night stand, but a smaller subsystem of that nature should also be in the game), it has risk versus reward, and most importantly I can see it joining the main playstyles of the game - combat, trade, mining, fluxing, escort, etc. I can see it all playing a part and I think that will be very important for Evolution to succeed. All the playstyles need to be represented and they all need to be important.
     
  13. Golgath

    Golgath Commander

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    Oct 22, 2007
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    karash is my new hero
     
  14. project3wc

    project3wc Senior Magnate

    16
    Oct 24, 2007
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    bump?

    this thread deserves some thoughts from ND imho :)
     
  15. Ikeprof

    Ikeprof Knight

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    Apr 27, 2005
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    Lack of response indicates a brain lock due to visuals.

    Something akin to:

    Weeks of heavy fighting, we have gotten the Quantar Zealots "Aggressor" station to go into reinforced mode. Weeks of launching heavy bomber runs from our station while trying to suppress their fighter wing defenses, intercepting their resupply tows and protecting our resupply tows. Months of money generating activities all devoted to stockpiling the needed war supplies and paying the contract amounts to the hauler squads for the support of this effort. Now its crunch time and things are getting complicated fast..

    We know they have contracted out AND enlisted their own faction to "tow up" with loads of desperately needed fuel and base minerals to repair the station when it comes out of reinforced mode. We know this fleet is somewhere less than 3 sectors out hidden and our scouts our scouring the massive roid belts for these ships. 1/2 of our attack force is busy escorting in our own much needed support materials and now it looks as if the Sols are nearing completion of their own station on our other border. Current estimates put their ability to put the sector into dispute within 6 hours. At least 3 days sooner than expected and we are in no shape to fight a two front war.

    A report of a massive fleet of enemy tows almost negligently guarded by a handful of fighters comes in from one of our scouts yet our own tows are 1 sector out and about to jump into harms way to make it to our own station.

    The mechanics are solid. Nothing even hints at breaking immersion including the reinforced mode. It would almost behoove a defensive faction to quickly place their own small station defensively in every sector as quickly as they could given the ruleset of 15k proximity to static objects. Last thing you want as a defender is your own ships and materials to have to jump in and then fly PAST an aggressors station to get to your own. I guess to say that as you expand outwards from your core faction, you want your defensi....err I'm giving away tactics, nm...
     
  16. Karash

    Karash Senior Magnate

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    Jun 25, 2007
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    Hey Ike, thanks for the post...I just now saw it here, sorry about that.

    I hope ND does something similiar, but they also have to balance out the "peacetime"...not just the factional warfare (if there IS any factional warfare). To be honest, I havent really come up with any peacetime offering that could go hand in hand with this...just not really interested in keeping the peace so to speak :)
     
  17. Karash

    Karash Senior Magnate

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    Jun 25, 2007
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    You know...looking back at this post (I just linked it from the JG forums), it sad to see the formatting errors. It was formatted just fine when I initially posted it, but now its all screwed up.

    This is why I use phpbb.
     
  18. Jump

    Jump Administrator Staff Member

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    May 22, 2004
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    It looks fine to me dude. PHPbb is hackers delight cake but you have fun with it. This is why, any time and all times, that you format something in a word processor or other than a text based application, that you drop it into notepad before transferring to the internet. The formating for a word processor is completely different and leaves characters that are not valid for internet text.
     
  19. netburnr

    netburnr Senior Magnate

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    Aug 24, 2007
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    phpBB is indeed hackers delight. You have to run at least one security mod to just be moderately safe. I did however like the way they wrote it, and really like how you can mod it to just about anything short of cooking you dinner.
     
  20. mudhen

    mudhen Marksman

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    Jan 2, 2008
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    /hijack on
    Boy you're not kidding about PhPbb being hackers delight cake! Friggin iFrame injections all over the place!! But I think PhPbb finally patched it up. We haven't seen anymore in a while at the GameSlapper (Sol Navy's home).
    /hijack off